Comments

winter funeral ~

a stray dog

joins the crowd



—Narayanan Raghunathan





About the author: My fields of activity are Philosophy (Universal Religion, Mysticism), Mathematics (Transcendental Numbers, Infinite Continued Fractions, General Number Theory, Foundations of Mathematics), Poetry, Music (Indian Karnaatik and Dhrupad(Hindusthani), Musicology), Dance (Neo-Classical), Photography and Graphics, and Farming. I have published the following books 1] Kalki ~ The Last Coming 2] Scrap Bits from The Note-Books of a Lunatic 3] Infinite Flame Silences(Haiku) 4] Apocalyptic Rapture(Haiku~ With Amanda) 5] The Solitary Infinity: Obituary To Transfinity.

Contact: aum_raudrabrahmanarayanan at yahoo dot com



55 responses
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published 6 March 2007
in haiku



Responses to the haiku for 6 March 2007 by Narayanan Raghunathan




Angelika Wienert

2007-03-06 00:31:39




an excellent haiku!




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-06 01:21:51




Great Thanks Angelika! I am honoured you like the Haiku. I must mention in this context that the version of the Haiku i
sumbmitted was

winter funeral ~
a stray dog too
joins the crowd

Dylan felt the "too" was superfluos. I felt it was necessary. I gave him my argumnents in favour of including the "too"! But Dylan has preferred his version! I feel my haiku looks a little truncated !




kala ramesh

2007-03-06 03:50:07




Hi Narayanan,

Nice to see you here!

Good poem with a clear and vivid imagery!

-kala




Andrea (andrea dot cecon at gmail dot com)

2007-03-06 10:03:22




amazing haiku... well done!




Vasile Moldovan (vasilemoldovan at yahoo dot com)

2007-03-06 10:53:11




A very human haiku.




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-06 13:02:27




vibrant
red peonies
white peonies
stirred by the breeze--
sobs




laryalee

2007-03-06 13:22:10




Very nice, Narayanan!
A moment that lingers,
and expands...
:-)
Lary




Georgia

2007-03-06 13:40:48




Poignant yet subtle, sad but oddly comforting -- very nicely done.




Elena

2007-03-06 15:18:24




Like a scene from a Sajit Ray’s movie.




Magyar

2007-03-06 17:24:37




Narayanan,
_Without the -too- depth is added... this version drew me in.
_M




Mary Griffith

2007-03-06 17:55:12




I agree with Magyar - omitting the "too" allowed more wondering for me. For example, "Was it the deceased's dog?" Hmmm.




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-06 23:07:34




winter funeral ~
a stray dog too
joins the crowd

I included the "too" for various reasons ~
First and foremost, the rhythm and cadence when read aloud. i feel this version sounds better than the truncated version!
Secondly, there is a secondary kireji [ an eloquent pause ] manifesting after "too" in this version, which adds to the poetic ambience in my opinion [ contd~]




Vasile Moldovan

2007-03-07 11:08:11




mourning bands...
tears came
to dog's eyes too




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-07 14:21:48




narayanan,
i'm in agreement with you.
too often one's words are lost upon others.
why??? because they don't understand.
those hearing my personal reading(baritone voice) tend to feel every word, thereby perceiving all the innuendoes.

in "masterpieces" i've seen errors, but did i take out my chisel. no.
i feel, "like it or dislike it, but leave it alone".




Rita Odeh

2007-03-07 22:05:52




Beautiful haiku, Narayanan. I like it without the word(too)which is implied in the poem. Isn't this the charm of brevity.?!




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-08 05:56:23




"charm of brevity", rita, i ponder. it is said of brevity, to be concise, terseness, or simply being brief.
TOO many think this applies to the haiku. yes, there is a shortness of words, however i feel the words many chose are TOO brief in being descriptive to truly portray the haiku moment
narayanan's "too" adds magic(charm). without too, one has created something sterile; lacking depth




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-08 07:19:53




Now to the deeper meta-physic of the "vast moment" and its seamless implications. It is not a mere neo-realistic human observation of an [ignorant] dog joining the human crowd obtruding their solemn mood. It is a metaphysical dog perceiving a unique canine-cosmos ~ a divine being who intrinsically knows as a birthright more about human death than human beings themselves. [ Contd~] ~ AH! "too" !




Magyar

2007-03-08 07:24:03




Narayanan,
_One reader, one opinion; just think of the mathematical progression here. However, none of those -many opinions- discredit... your
"stiring" haiku.
_That which is written, is complemented by the discussion it creates.
_M




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-08 08:35:33




In india Dog is a mystical mythological being.

a dog howls ~
scent of death pervades
the midnight stillness

Dog's special howl is a traditional premonition of Death! This is to affirm that Dogs see Yama[The Lord Of Death] Please refer ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama_%28Hinduism%29 [ Contd ~ ] Thank you friends . Special thanks to Bob. I will respond in detail soon




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-08 13:07:30




magyar, what is being read is not the way it was originally written. open discussion is good; if the original work has been left intact.

-

dft, might you change the haiku to it's original wording




Georgia

2007-03-08 16:06:07




Fascinating discussion. In general, I believe an author's strong preferences should be respected, by author, editor, & readers. Here, unfortunately, though the author's explanations are interesting on several levels, the "too" does not convey such complexities & does feel clumsy & redundant. I much prefer the graceful & moving published version (sans "too").




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-08 16:46:11




Infinite Gratitude Bob [Omnipresent on Tinywords] for your deep understanding.It is a case of "déjà vu". I expected that you would support my necessarily rigid stance and when it really happened i was honoured and i felt relieved.

shmashaanam ~
shvaano mahaa rishi:
apratyaksham dattena saha
[ Sanskrit ]

crematorium ~
dog the divine seer
with the invisible Datta

[Contd~]




ed markowski

2007-03-08 19:49:37




the word "too" adds mystery for me.
makes me wonder who (human & spirit)
else has decided to mourn (or celebrate)
this passing.

spring equinox
stray dogs lap the remains
of a snowman




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-08 23:03:37




Swamigalu! you honour me far beyond my worth.
-

understand the haiku's essence and with a clean palate, savor Narayanan Raghunathan's haiku. "too", albeit short is a highly complex word, provides clarity. as narayanan points out, there's more than meets the eye; that many overlook

and those professing enlightenment.

-

wintry night in silence the red dog, the black dog too i see




Rita Odeh

2007-03-09 07:43:46




Dear b. m. richardson,
In my comment, I mentioned that the word (too) is implied in the poem, so it is redundant. This is charm of brevity.Isn't it?
Dear Narayanan,
in my society,too,people believe that dogs do see bad spirits.
To T.Dylan,
I prefer to publish the haiku as it is without any changes and let us write our feedback which can lead to discussions of which we all learn.

Best, Rita




Alan Summers

2007-03-09 07:57:40




This discussion is very rewarding: to have been privileged to read so much of Narayanan's point of view.

Tinywords works as a spontaneous conduit, and in this case it has been particularly illuminating and rewarding.

My many thanks to Narayanan, and the guest commentators.

I love the haiku by the way! ;-)




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-09 08:04:21




Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, the trinity in Hindu Puraanas[ ageless ancient lore] unite to become the Avatar of Dattaatreya. Four country dogs follow him and are supposed to be the personification of the four Vedas[ Word Seen] Rig, Yajur, Saama,& Atharva.

http://www.shivashakti.com/datta.htm

http://www.hinduism.8k.com/dattatreya.html

http://www.avatara.org/dattatreya/index.html

[contd ~]




Georgia

2007-03-09 08:25:24




Let's hope the author's discomfort about having allowed his work to be published in a "truncated" form (oh, how painful!) has been alleviated by the enlightening & rewarding discussion it has inspired, & by the appreciation & attention it has received in both forms.




b. m. richardson

2007-03-09 08:35:30




rita, "in my comment" is redundant to "i mentioned". implication results from (effect there has to be a cause). i see no indication more than the words(a stray dog joins the crowd) plainly say. ah, the magic of "too".

now, i can reflect on "charm": an utterance of words perchance; to fascinate even.
i'd say no.
if i were* at a loss for words would be "charm brevity"

*false and improbable




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-09 08:49:43




DattAterya ~ Just check

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dattatreya

There is something else too that occurs to me. This observation of the dog joining the human (funeral) crowd must have happened many times although perhaps not noted explictly ! The "too" brings an expectancy fullfillment of a similar event! Thank you Ed, Rita, Vasile, Alan and other friends who have commented here!




d. f. tweney

2007-03-09 11:25:06




Rita and Narayanan -- tinywords is a magazine, not a workshop. That means the editors select what they believe are the best haiku and sometimes suggest changes to them. Also, it is my hope that the response feature will be used for haiku, not argument, with people posting their own haiku in reply, creating a sort of online renga, not a disputation. Usually this is the case. Today, not so much.




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-09 11:45:37




Thank you Dylan ~

Dear Vasile
Thank you for this Haiku ~
I think it may be slightly altered thus in my opinion ~

mourning band ...
tears came to
the dog's eyes too

My response ~

winter twilight ~
a stray silent dog
weeps solitarily




Georgia

2007-03-09 13:51:48




Terrific idea, responding mainly in haiku, creating renga. (I didn't realize that's what was wanted.) Let's try it! I'll do my best, but there will probably be a time lag between the inspirating haiku & my response, if any.

Thanks!




brett brady (bcb at flex dot com)

2007-03-10 03:52:26




sooooo much nicer without the 2...

two silences
under one umbrella...
tiny coffin




Shyam Santhanam

2007-03-10 09:40:58




I think a wonderful and interesting discussion has arisen out of the change suggested. There are a couple of fine response haiku too ~ notably Vasile's and bmr's. There wasn't so much a disputation as a spontaneous elucidation of a finer aspect of haiku, which readers of magazine don't usually get. I think tinywords got more than it bargained for.




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-10 17:42:41




chilling light
through bare branches
a dove's coo
-
"we're all students, and no one really knows how to write a haiku; we keep trying anyway". -jr

with comments, responses, and seminars the haiku grows; not merely being imitated.
discussions, one reason the haiku thrives; continually being discovered and rediscovered. sans debates, i fear singlemindedness; we know where this leads.




brett brady

2007-03-10 20:38:23




one cricket
deepening the silence
between stars




John P. Portelli

2007-03-10 22:07:07




Very powerful haiku. I prefer it with "too". For me, it adds a lot and it creates more possibilities (does a stray dog usually join a crowd?).




ed markowski

2007-03-11 08:25:06




narayanan,

saw this three years ago. the poem was
subsequently published in the senryu
section of simply haiku. it seems a fitting
companion piece to your fine haiku...


funeral procession...
the last car picks up
a hitchhiker


"too" or not, your poem is a resounding
success. look at all the other "strays"
who've joined the mourners!

ed




brett brady (bcb at flex dot com)

2007-03-12 03:35:23




or?:....

funeral procession...
the last car picks up
a hitchhiker too




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-12 05:46:56




ahhhh, the power, mystique, and (charm) of "too"; causing one to conceive and perceive the many worlds in a ku...

-

ed, thanks for sharing.

-

"funeral procession" caused me to ponder if the last car was part of the procession, too.
-

stray yellow dog
stranded on the roadside--
a hitch-hiker, too




Narayanan Raghunathan

2007-03-12 06:30:30




Dear friends
Dylan is irritated by this "too" related discussion. He has clarified this to me. Since this is his site and so it is his prerogative ~ I request you to shift the venue of this discussion to

http://www.wonderhaikuworlds.com/

Check this article ~ http://www.wonderhaikuworlds.com/viewdetail.php?post=1122&type=11

Thank you ~
Narayanan Raghunathan




ed markowski

2007-03-12 07:37:52




bob,

the last car TOO was part of the procession.
i found the incident both strange and
compelling.

monk's hut
the mountain it sits upon too
is crumbling

ed




martin

2007-03-12 09:23:36




Too much!
I enjoyed the haiku!




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-12 09:30:16




ed, even stranger and more compelling, too, if it had been the first car...

-

crackers crumbling
from the child's hand
the swans feast




martin

2007-03-12 10:57:05




winter gravestone
steam rises from the stray dog's pee




ed markowski

2007-03-12 12:32:18




bob,

had it been the hearse, i may have marked
it off as hallucination. that would've been
too compelling!

ed

a fresh layer of moss
on mother's gravestone...
summer begins




brett brady (bcb at flex dot com)

2007-03-12 14:09:32




milkweed
growing over the older
tombstones




ed markowski

2007-03-12 14:53:32




mother's grave...
the withered roses
from her garden




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-12 16:40:03




as summer ends--
remembering
rolling stones

-

ed, these are strange times. weren't we at least briefed(j/k) by the likes of the outer limits, the twilight zone, and the x-files.

and, for some even stranger reason, jeffrey's "noon rush" (2003/04/08) comes to mind too.

-

gone...
mother's walk
through the garden
lilac aroma




Ed Schwellenbach

2007-03-12 17:10:50




slow moving hearse---
skidding into headstones,
the driven snow

I like your poem without the "too." With the "too," the "two" would seem to mean "in addition to," but you have not indicated or implied any antecedent or referent. And therefore, IMHO, the "two" would provide fuzziness not complexity.




d. f. tweney

2007-03-12 21:01:41




Narayanan, Shyam, Bobby, and others -- let me apologize for my irritation earlier. What initially seemed to me a case of an author carping at his editor now seems to have blossomed into a very interesting, wide-ranging discussion. My first impression was wrong! I am happy to see renga as well as discussion on this site. Carry on, either here or at wonderhaikuworlds.com. You will anyway, I know. ;)




Narayanan Raghunathan (aum_raudrabrahmanarayanan at yahoo dot com)

2007-03-12 22:06:01




Dear friends Welcome to

http://www.wonderhaikuworlds.com/

Check this article ~
"Ah! Too Be or Not Too Be"

http://www.wonderhaikuworlds.com/viewdetail.php?post=1122&type=11

Thank you ~
Narayanan Raghunathan

Thank you Dylan for posting my comments you had withheld!
N




brett brady

2007-03-13 13:19:36




done.




b. m. richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)

2007-03-13 18:38:33




dft, the magnitude of your responsibilities, while maintaining tinywords, must be overwhelming; sifting through the legitimate and illegitimate. an apology is unwarranted. over the years, you've been a beacon of light through it all.

-

winter blues-
grey clouds
give way to a blue sky

-

dft, keep up the brilliant work

-

after tomorrow, i may deny having written this. ;)




This is taken from tinywords ~


Narayanan Raghunathan Wed, Aug 22nd 2012, 23:01  
  
Excellent haiku. It's difficult to use the word 'too' without it becoming a haiku cliché but you have avoided it with neat skill.

It makes me think what else, and who else, were invited guests, from insects to other animals, to humans that needed the social company despite the sadness of the occasion.

Alan Summers, With Words
Alan Summers Thu, Aug 23rd 2012, 06:51  
  
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